Hungarian Liberal media (hir24.hu) made the interview with Ferencváros Capo :
He is the leader of the Ferencváros ultras: Capo who leads Ferencváros outside of the stadium. The Capo, who got banned by Kubatov Gábor. The Capo who stands against vein scanner and organises demonstration with 6000 people attending. Interview with Ádam Hamberger:
Do you get chosen by the people or you fight for the role of the Capo?
It depends. The fan life is like an underground movement where there is one ranking which is not said however everyone knows what is his role and what to do. There isn’t a vote for to become a Capo and also there isn’t a situation where I stand up and I say “I want to become a Capo”. A lot of people recommended it and this is how I became a Capo.
Being a Capo is a nickname or it is a ranking in the movement?
It is a ranking. It is an Italian word.
The ultras in your group listen to you even if you are outside of the stadium or not really?
Yes, they listen.
To be honest, I was expecting a beast who is like 140 kg however you are definitely in a great shape but an average young men so how did you became the Capo?
It is all about the charisma and of course I love sports therefore I visit the gym very often and I do thai boxing in the Fradi-boxing Fight Club.
Street fighters?
It is a sporting organisation which was created by the fans of Ferencváros for the fans. Boxing, Thai boxing and MMA training is all available and professional and non-professional fans all attend our trainings.
What is that scar on your hand?
It happened during training where I accidentally hit someone at the wrong place.
What skills are needed for a Capo?
Charisma is really important and also you need to be a person who can be a role model for the group and they can identify with me. You need to have prestige and the most important thing is to show that you really care about the group and you put your heart out for the group.
What is your daytime job?
I have a very average job. I will be 26 this year and I attended ELTE University where I studied Politics. In 2006, when there was the “őszödi speech” and the riots on the street and the whole country was giving opinions about politics, I thought to myself that there is a future in politics.
Did you attend the riots in 2006?
I don’t want to talk about this now.
Did you want to become a politician?
Not really. I thought that if a person learns about politics then he is able to improve the situation of the country however I didn’t see the potential therefore I decided to pursue other things in my life so I left politics.
Being a capo and controlling the group is like controlling a political party, isn’t it?
Not really, however there are some similarities.
Does your group have any connection with a political party?
We are not controlled by any political party.
A lot of people say that Jobbik has a big influence on your group and the protests against Kubatov has the aim to make Jobbik more powerful which would have an effect on Fidesz and on their budget which they spend on football.
You have been around as a Capo in the meetings between the club and the ultras for more than 3,5 years and in the end you couldn’t agree.
Yes, I was there on all of them.
The conflict started when he said that in the new stadium there will be vein scanner to identify the fans. For this reason the ultras decided to boycott all the games, even during the “Derby” there was a boycott and you watched the game on a big screen at the Népliget. Who’s fault is the situation?
It is Kubatov Gábor. The fans had a lot of faith about the president. For three years, we had a good relationship with the president and we were on the same lines and suddenly he decided to take a u-turn and started to bring in the vein scanner and other restrictions.
Kubatov says that after 3,5 years of talks, he realised that the ultras doesn’t understand the rules and they don’t want to support their team with manners and if Hungary doesn’t make racism, riots from the stadiums then the UEFA will keep punishing us and we will receive penalties and closed door games and they may even ban us from international games. Should we receive all of these punishments just because the Ultras want to have fun?
I think there is no place for racism in the stadium however we do not agree with all these strict rules. We wanted to find a solution with Gábor.
Before the ultras started to boycott the games, there were a lot of racist chants from the ultras
Since, I am the capo of the group, I have never started a song which has chants about Jews.
Did the “the train is going to Auschwitz” song happened before you?
Yes
What is your opinion about that?
I don’t really care about it.
Is it a fun song or is it a crime?
If I would think that singing about Jews would have a place on the stands then there would be songs about Jews. If I would start to chant about Jews, everyone would continue because they follow my chants. It happened several times in MTK games when someone started to insult Jews and I said to them to “stop this and I started to chant Hajrá Ferencváros (Come on Ferencváros)”. We control the whole stand and we are able to control the situation and have an effect on the fans. Anyone can have their opinion about anything however there are things which should not be in the stands.
There is a guy who has a similar moustache to Hitler and he has a Fradi shirt which says Adolf in the back. What is your opinion about him?
It is his decision how he wants to look. If he feels good then I can do nothing about it. The interesting thing that he visited the games with his family.
Chanting “gipsies”, “homosexuals”, “dirty viola”, “Purple monkeys”, “purple bitch” happened during your time and there were times when the ultras were making monkey sounds. Do you think it is not over the limit?
This isn't the same like chanting about Jews. I have never encouraged people to make monkey sounds however I have to say that the ultras are not making monkey sounds because they are racist, they are doing this because they want to make the coloured footballers angry.
Is it just a joke to call someone a monkey?
Maybe, I have a different thinking compared to others but I don't care about these things, I only care about support.
You dont care?
What is the first reaction when an Újpest player kicks a Ferencváros player. A person always hurts the other with a thing which hurts the most. If I am sensitive about being small then if someone says “whats up, midget”. The people are like this, you can’t change them. This is part of the culture in the stands, this is why sometimes we call someone a “gipsy”, “homosexual” and etc. or we insult their mother.
A couple of minutes ago you said that racism has no place in the stadium then you say calling someone a “gipsy” is ok. What is that about?
When we call someone a gipsy then we are not calling them a gipsy because we are racist.
Why then?
It just happened, it is our habit. Calling someone a gipsy is an insult however we are not talking about the gipsies when we insult the other groups because we don’t care about ethnicity.
The UEFA, FIFA, MLSZ and Kubatov Gábor and the people who write dictionary think that calling someone a “gipsy” is racism.
They are hypocrites. If you walk on the street you hear more swearing and racism than in a football game and I am not even talking about the internet.
Do you have a kid?
No
If you will ever have one then will you take him to “Üllői út”?
If I would not take him/her to the stadium for this reason then I would not have TV and internet at home and I would not let him/her to the kindergarten or to the school, just because he could hear swearing. I would not let him/her out of the room. Would that be the solution? Hypocrisy. The stands are nowhere compared to whats going on the world. When a small 12 year old girl puts a picture on Facebook where she is nearly naked and she sees the people in the reality shows getting drunk and having sex then I don’t think it would disturb her, if she would hear “dirty Újpest”
You will have the same attitude like these people if you insult people when you are chanting the songs.
I don’t think so. People should notice that ultras collect money every year for kids hospitals, we take poor families abroad and we provide a very cheap training in our Boxing club for everyone. We have a lot of positive actions. Already is one positive thing that we are doing sports. We have a campaign that we don’t drink before games. For example I have only drank alcohol twice in the last 10 years in a football game. We try to teach the people to be similar.
There was a friendly game in Budapest between Hungary and israel where a small group of the ultras turned their back and started to chant “dirty jews” and other anti-semitic chants during the 90 minutes. The consequence for this was that we had to play the game against romania in closed doors and MLSZ had to pay 40,000 Swiss Francs.
I remember
Did you attend this game?
I don’t usually visit national team games however I was there that time.
Did you turn your back too?
I sat on the side and thats it. My opinion is that it was a very bad decision to organise a friendly against israel before the game against romania.
Why?
Because, everyone knows what feelings we have for israel.
What feelings?
Tense feelings. By the way, when we went to bucharest, there was 40,000 people were booing during our national anthem and they were chanting anti-Hungarian songs and nothing happened and they didn’t have to play behind closed doors.
Ferencváros had to play behind closed doors after the Ultras have displayed a banner about Csatáry László during the game against MTK in August 2013. The board of Ferencváros was really angry about it and they said this is one of the reason why they implemented these strict rules.
I still don’t get why it is a problem that the group remembered a person who they thought is worth remembering about.
Csatáry László was the commander of the ghetto in Kassa and during his time, they deported 15,000 people to Auschwitz. After the war he changed his name and went to Canada. In 1948 he received death penalty in Czechoslovakia however he was away. When they found who he really is then they took away his Canadian nationality. You remembered about him against MTK so why you don’t understand the anger?
People say, that the winners write history. By the way, when it was his death our first home game was against MTK. If we had any other opponents for example Pápa then we would had made a banner against them.
When you say that “winners write history” you suggesting that Csatáry is innocent? There are evidence and a decision by court which says that he is a war criminal.
What he did or what he didn’t is not my job to decide and I don’t want to think about this anymore.
Were you part of the banner making?
The whole thing was created by the Ferencváros ultras and they were the people who showed it.
Including you?
I didn’t hold anything, like I already said, I stand in the fence.
We were just talking about the fact that the ultras do what you tell them.
The only thing I did was that I read what will be on the banner and the whole group was clapping.
It was terrifying.
By the way we showed the banner to a person who was part of the board of Ferencváros. (not Kubatov Gábor). However it is another thing if he knew who is Csatáry László
Who was that leader?
I dont want to name him.
It doesnt count like that.
We showed it to the person who always checks our banners. I am not the person who tells on other people.
We can be “hypocrites” however we both know that it was provocation to make a banner about Csatáry against MTK. Like you said “A person hurts the other with a thing which he knows that hurts him”.
We can call it a provocation, if we really want to.. however I still think that the banner didn’t have anything do with judaism and definitely not to MTK.
So what's the whole thing about?
The thing is about that Csatáry was persecuted and he was convicted for things which either happened or not. This is a little bit similar of how they criminalise fans. We have the same problem that when someone does in our group then they criminalise the whole group and they call everyone is a criminal. By the way, if we think about it then a politician should not be on the stands and should not be in the world of football but still Ferencváros has a president who is a politician so why we cannot display a banner about Csatáry?
How is this relevant?
It is relevant because in 2006-2007 there was a lot of political message on the stands about Gyurcsány but Fidesz didn’t have any problem about that. However, Fidesz has the power now and if we criticise their action then immediately it is a problem that politics have a place in football.
Critising the leaders wasnt the problem, the problem was that you remembered a war criminal.
I think the right thing is that everyone writes what they think it is good. There was a banner at the stadium of Újpest where they said “homosexual Hamberger” and I didn’t care. I didn’t care because I tolerate these things. If someone thinks I should deserve to die and it is his opinion.
Anything can be said in the stadium?
In my opinion, yes. I am a fan of freedom of speech. The community on the stands can send a message to the people and to the authorities with chants or with banners. Why we shouldn’t give our honest opinion.
It is because there is a limit and there are the other Ferencváros supporters and a lot of them thinks that banners and racist chants are offensive. Also there are the thousands of people who are watching these games and they don’t expect these things.
The banner of Csatáry László wasn’t raised where the other Ferencváros supporters sit, it was at our place. We are in a free country with rights and the normal things is that anyone can have an opinion and they can tell them freely. In these things I think in a liberal way.
You have a specific way of understanding liberalism. Freedom of speech goes until...
...where I don’t offend others people right. I know but how I am limiting freedom of speech if I insult Újpest. If they don’t like it then they insult us.
We were talking about Csatáry but now it is enough. Do you think “Get out Orbán Viktor (President of Hungary)” is acceptable on the stands?
If it is the peoples opinion then why not?
“Get out Kubatov” is acceptable?
Of course. The fans have their rights to express their opinions about their own president.
He brought the money and he was behind the new stadium.
The stadium was built by the money of the taxpayers like mine and other ultras.
Which is distributed by the politicians again.
Stadiums are needed however politicians think that if they build one then they can tell what the fans should chant and they go even further and they tell who is a “real” fan and who is not. However, what we are chanting has a long history.
In the 1990s people were chanting different things and culture of the stands was way different even the "Üllői úti B-közép” ultras had different ways then the ones today. Your habits only are maybe 20 years old.
We didn’t hear the same from the older fans. After the communism fell then there were bigger riots on the stands and I remember that Diósgyőr had a banner which said “"gipsy death”" but it is interesting that it wasn’t a problem back then.
It was a problem back then however the politics and the football leaders didn’t want to change it and UEFA wasn’t that strict back then. What is your opinion about the anti-racism and anti-hatred campaign by the Ferencváros players?
I have no problem with that.
They are targeting you, aren’t they?
Don’t mix racism with fanaticism. We are not racist, we are fanatics.
Do you have contacts with other ultras groups?
Of course.
But in the stadium you call each other “gipsies and homosexuals”.
We still sit down and talk even with the Újpest ultras.
The Újpest ultras didn’'t attend Ferencváros-Újpest because you talked and decided to boycott together?
They didn’'t attend the game because they decided not to. There were little talks before but it was their decision. None of the ultras in Hungary are attending the games therefore all the games are boring now.
Ferencváros-Újpest had a great atmosphere with 20,000 people and “B-közép” was nearly full.
- Probably, we have different opinions on atmosphere.
- Probably.
Do you think that was great atmosphere? (Capo asks questions)
You weren'’t there.
I watched the replay and I talked to people who were there and I have listened to their opinions. You will see what is a good atmosphere when the people who were protesting are able to return.
To get in, you will have to accept the vein scanner.
Never!
What is the real problem with this anyway? Seriously (Riporter again .)
It is the top of the iceberg. What is the point of it? I have never heard any good reason for it.
Kubatov Gábor said “Ultras like to have riots but they don’t want to take responsibility for the actions however if there is a vein scanner then they have don’t have the opportunity to avoid the punishment”
We couldn’t avoid the 300 HD camera and we didn’t say nothing about it. Also I want to add that I heard different things about the possibility of avoiding the system.
Kubatov Gábor says “If someone wants to cause problems then he just puts on a mask or puts a scarf over his head and no camera can identify him”
Kubatov also said that with the cameras he can read what I am writing on my phone.
To identify someone then they need to know who entered the stadium especially if there is legal consequences of a riot.
So, with that logic if I go through with the vein scanner and I put on a hoodie and a scarf then I can cause problems? (Capo )
- They can identify the person out of the couple of thousand fans. (Riporter)
- They could identify me if I would have a normal supporter card too. (Capo)
Only if you would use your own one and not borrow one from someone else. However, you can’t borrow a vein.
We still hear stories that there are people who are avoiding the vein scanner.
We also heard that the ultras are afraid that Kubatov, the government and the authorities will use the scanned veins for their own reasons. My question is “Do you have a smartphone”?
Yes, I do.
Credit card?
Yes.
Email address?
Of course.
So if they know about everything then a vein scanner wouldnt really make a difference, would it?
I don’'t worry about these things. The police even knows that I am sitting here right now however I have nothing to hide. I am not scared of the vein scanner, I just don’t agree with it and I think it is unacceptable.
So what? What would happen if you would accept the system?
Then there would be a new stupid law.
No way!
10 years ago you would have laughed if I said that in 2015, you need to give all your personal details and you need to get a supporters card and in the end they will even scan your vein and on the top of that if you want to travel away then they tell you in what ways you can do that. There are no vein scanners in anywhere in the world!
There isn’'t but at Den Haag they make 3 photographs to the supporter card, one from the right, one from the left and one from the middle like for the criminals. Is that better?
And in a lot of places, you just walk to the stadium, buy a ticket. We just want to support our team like how we did before.
And Kubatov wants you to not support your team like how you did before.
I have the same opinion about the people who throw stuff, runs in or just want to get into fights and brings in Nazi emblems. They deserve to be banned. We don’t want anarchy!
Not enough.
So what if we all scan and we go in and Kubatov decides to ban us 150 of us. (Capo question)
You don’t need to do something which would get you banned.
He can just make up something because even today they are just making up who are banning from the stadium (Capo)
-Ferencváros only banned 15 supporters (riporter)
-Including me, until the summer of 2016. They said that I caused harm to Ferencváros because I didn’t have a ticket on my name for 10 games. (Capo)
Did you sneak in?
No, I didnt. I received free tickets from my friends in the academy and I have a friend in a company which supports Ferencváros and they receive a lot of tickets.
If you really love Ferencváros then you could of bought the tickets.
I have bought a season ticket since 2006 every year. If this is the problem then tell Kubatov to send me a receipt and I will pay for everything.
What you think about those ultras, who still go into to the stadium despite the boycott?
They are not ultras, just fans. They have rights to go in, it is their decision.
Kubatov Gábor says that your group is waiting for the people next to the stadium and you even had a fight with some ultras who are “traitors”
I didn’t hear about these things. However, I do have information about the fact that Kubatov sent some people to some of my friends house?
What did they to do them?
The same thing which Kubatov said what we doing. (beating up our fans)
Is it true that there are a lot of people between the security who were ultras before?
Yes, there are people who were ultras before.
Do you think them as traitors?
Lets just say I don’t like these transformations.
If you would meet Kubatov in a dark alley, what would happen?
We would have a great talk and I think all our problems would go away. It is really hard without communication.
Couple of slaps?
It would be just a friendly talk, in my opinion.
What do you think about Szőke Feri (security coordinator)?
What should be my opinion about him?.. I think he is the leader of the security services at the club.
Is he the person who defends Kubatov Gábor?
I don’t know who defends him but I think the security services will definitely protect the president.
Does he need protection?
Haha.. I don’t think so. We don’t want to attack him.
There would be huge consequences of that.
We are going on our own ways, we would like to return to our stadium in normal manners and not in a way where we attack Kubatov Gábor. Some people want to make the people think that we want that but in reality we are ready to talk.
Are you scared of Szőke?
We aren't scared of anyone.
Are you scared of the authorities and the police?
Fear is a relative concept. We are not close with the police but if they are nice to us then we respect them but if they are not nice then we raise our voices.
Do you really think that you can overthrow Kubatov?
Kubatov Gábor isn't the most important part of Ferencváros but the ultras are definitely important. For us, Kubatov is not important, what is important is that we can go in and support our team. However, it is a known fact that Kubatov is taking our team to a very wrong direction and he is destroying our traditions.
Like?
- Did you see the new eagle? What is that? (Capo asks)
- It is weird, but the old one wasn'’t a really nice one too. (Riporter)
What about the new fradi-song which is played when the players go in? What about that? (Capo asks)
- According to my knowledge, they are still go in to the pitch is still the old one.
- It isn't the classic one. It is a little bit faster and the sound of is different too. Fradi was always famous of sticking to their traditions.
Are you familiar with the traditions of Ferencváros?
Yes
Lets do a quick test
I didn’t come here to answer questions about the tradition.
Just a couple of questions. When was Ferencváros founded?
I don’t want to talk about when Ferencváros was founded.
You must know.
In 1899. May.
Correct. The football section?
1901, December.
December is correct but in 1900. When was the first championship win for Ferencváros?
I think we won the league in the third year.
Correct. 1903. The president who founded the club?
Springer Miklós. (Capo)
Springer…? (Riporter)
…Miklós.(Capo)
Ferenc. (Riporter)
Ferenc! (Capo)
Miklós is the cousin of Springer Ferenc and he was also a lawyer and he was a honoured citizen. Do you know what was the name of the area in 1899?
Franzstadt!
Why not Ferencváros?
The reason for that most of the people were speaking german in the area.
True. Mostly Germans and Hungarians were living there.
I know.
Budapest was really multicultural and it was going great. By the way third of the footballers and the owners of the club were Jewish like MTK which was founded in 1888. Also we have to note that the green-white colour was taken from the red-white-green colours. This is a heart-warming Hungarian story.
This is what I am talking about. Traditions, and what we see today? Ferencváros players were coming out in orange shirts to the game.
Barcelona is one of the best teams in the world and they still wear pink shirts sometimes. This is a part of modern football.
I still don’'t like it. The club has the traditional colours because they should wear them. This is UEFAs fault because everything is about the money now and they want to ruin our game, kill the emotions, but without emotions and passion the game will die out.
Half of the world is watching the modern teams like Barcelona,Real Madrid, Bayern Münich, Juventus and other great teams. There is passion there too but without hatred. Players love each other and fans drink together after the game and when they go home in the underground they don’t start a fight. It is really nice.
This isn't true. For example check Dortmund where they had fans running into to the pitch and they were wearing ski masks and lighting up flares. They also had riots on the street and they sing offensive chants too. There is hatred there too.
What they sing about?
They insult others too. I think football is not just a business however if it is then it should mean that the fans are even more important than now and we should let them be happy and do things which they enjoy. They should not follow the orders.
I don'’t think that in Barcelona or in Madrid the system controls the fans but lets leave this topic now. What would make you return to the stands?
They should just abolish the vein scanner.
We hear rumours that the ultras would be happy if they abolish the vein scanner in their sector but what is the point of doing that? I mean your stands had the riots before so why you should be exception? Also you said it before, the vein scanner is not the problem, the problem is what it represents. If the ultras get the exception, the vein scanner will still represent Kubatovs authority.
We should start somewhere. They want something and we want something too. We should meet in the middle. We want to talk with them but we have a pre-condition which is no vein scanner in our sector.
Then you can spend a couple more years outside of the stadium at “Liget”. How long you will continue with that?
Forever.
Forever?
Yes, we will never give up.
How can you survive without football? The point of the game is to see Gera, Böde, Dibusz and etc. Isn’'t it?
We not just want to see the players, we want to create a great atmosphere and we want to full house at all games. We aren't just called the 12th player for no reason.
It is difficult to be the 12th player outside of the stadium. Are you going to be sad if Ferencváros wins the league next year?
- Why would I be sad? (Capo)
- Because it would mean that the club can achieve its aims without the ultras. (Riporter)
- We aren't that crazy. We are crazy about Ferencváros and we want them to be successful. I want to note that the community of Ferencváros are not the people who can be controlled like a sheep. We have a road which we follow and the people in the community think the same and follow our route. (Capo)
You never doubt yourself?
If I would be standing with 20 people then I would say that we are rebels and idiots who are against the system but against Újpest, there were 6000 people at Népliget. 6000 people would be wrong? I don'’t think so.
If someone is fanatical it doesn'’t immediately means that he is right.
These people were following teams in snow and in cold. When we played Fehérvár in the storm then we were called “Sons of Kubatov”. Our group the “Green Monsters” attended all home and away games before the ban. This includes the games away. I see how the people in our group look since we cannot attend.
How?
For these people, Ferencváros is their life and they were preparing for a week before games to be able to chant and maybe drink a couple of drinks. This helped to relieve stress. Now, they are really tense because the system took away something from their life which was permanent. Before, we had 90 minutes which was ours and now we have nothing.
“If the ulltras respect the rules and they learn to behave then they can stay because we need their support however if they don’t change, then they have to go”. Kubatov Gábor said that.
If he really thinks that then we think that he should leave and not us. We were there before and we will be there in the future. Ultras cannot be just sent away because Ferencváros is nothing without them and they are nothing without Ferencváros too. Ultras should be on the stands and no one should try to chase us away or change us. Instead, we should find a solution for this situation.
Interjú : www.hir24.hu - ott megtalálhatjátok magyarul is, aki nem olvasta volna még .
Köszönjük a fordítást : 1234-nek .
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Kapcsolódó :
Interjú a Green Monsters-sel .:
